Summary with Key Words
The conversation revolves around the limitations of hackathons in healthcare, particularly when computer science (CSE) professionals collaborate with healthcare practitioners. Key words include:
- *Hackathons*
- *Healthcare Collaboration*
- *Critical Realist Heutagogy*
- *Medical Education*
- *Healthcare Technology*
Conversational transcripts:
[11/10, 09:45] hu1: Awesome! I would then encourage you and your students to participate in ...thon workshops and thon main event too. In last Blr ...thon event in May, we got 100 teams participating off which 60% were practicing doctors only.
[11/10, 09:54]hu2: Alright this reminds me that I was about to share our latest collaboration experience with our CSE collaborators who collaborated with us for a project they wanted to also present in a hackathon but didn't share in the group as it would have been disparaging as it was quite negative and made us disillusioned about hackathons altogether!
While we were focused on preparing the research design part of the project that would have necessitated some human effort on part of all the collaborators to focus on collecting meaningful human data on a long term commitment, we later realised that our CSE colleagues were limiting themselves to engage with our patient issues just till the date of the hackathon and immediately forgot about the project goals as soon as it was over!
This recent negative experience has made me avoid hackathons like plague!
However I guess there are so many complex systems issues here that none are to blame but the times we live in.
[11/10, 10:01]hu1: Indeed! That’s the reason we stopped doing pure hackathons where CSE people make healthcare products with their whims and fancies and thus only theoretically good outcomes are there not practical oriented. Last time 4 teams got good placements in medtech or AI companies because of their projects made in ...thon, one team got grant and one is taking product dev further by themselves only
[11/10, 10:06]hu2: We need such committed CSE background people to work with us because at the end of the day we are focused on improving our patient outcomes and as salaried academics we may not be focusing at all on ROIs
[24/10, 09:03]hu3: What I feel is, these CSE guys are trained to abstract problems, they reduce every system to models, logics and data. Health care is completely opposite, the meaning lies in the context and nuance of a human life. So, when CSE guys enter health care they don't just miss the problem, they delete the patient itself, the empathy, care, emotions which we talk about have very little importance to them. And that's not their fault, they are just trained that way
[24/10, 09:06]hu3: They engage with health care problems as datasets, not ecosystems. They are more like predict X, classify Y without understanding the adjacent consequences or the accountability chain.
[24/10, 09:09]hu3: In the above case, I feel, hackathons are designed for short term optimization, demos, judges etc instead of clinical reliability. But, medicine is a slow compounding system
[24/10, 09:12]hu3: This isn't a criticism at all. The mismatch is actually structural, not personal. The problem is not the intent. They operate in completely different environments. But, the ones entering health care need to understand, health care is far beyond "just technology, models and data".
[24/10, 09:16]hu3: This doesn't apply to everyone, but to many of them.
[24/10, 09:18]hu2: Yes not criticism. We call it critical realist heutagogy and you are a born expert! 👏👇
Thematic Analysis
The discussion highlights the structural mismatch between the approaches of CSE professionals and healthcare practitioners. Key themes include:
Structural Mismatch
- CSE professionals tend to abstract problems, reducing complex systems to models, logic, and data, which can lead to overlooking the nuances and context of human experiences in healthcare.
- Healthcare practitioners, on the other hand, value the context and emotional aspects of patient care, which can be lost in the CSE approach.
Short-term vs. Long-term Approach
- Hackathons are designed for short-term optimization, demos, and judges, which can lead to solutions that are not practical or reliable in real-world healthcare settings.
- Medicine is a slow-compounding system that requires a long-term approach, which can be at odds with the short-term nature of hackathons.
Need for Collaborative Understanding
- There is a need for CSE professionals to understand the complexities of healthcare and the importance of context, nuance, and empathy in patient care.
- Critical realist heutagogy is proposed as an approach that can facilitate collaborative learning and problem-solving between healthcare practitioners and CSE professionals.
Overall, the conversation highlights the challenges of interdisciplinary collaboration in healthcare and the need for a more nuanced understanding of the complexities of healthcare problems.
CC licence: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimedia_Hackathon_Prague_2019_-_Group_Photo_-_CLK.png#mw-jump-to-license
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