Conversational learning :
More about conversational learning here:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/
[3/10, 8:36 PM] Rakesh Biswas: Was just listening to this.
[3/10, 8:40 PM] Rakesh Biswas: @Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic What is the ragam of the first song?
[3/10, 10:00 PM] Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic: Kanakangi ragam
[3/10, 10:02 PM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: Please share your other musings
[3/10, 10:04 PM] Frashita : It is the 1st ragam of the 72 melakarta ragas
[3/10, 10:05 PM] Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic: And also happens to be the first thyagaraja composition I learnt as a child😇
[3/10, 10:16 PM] Rakesh Biswas: The second and the second last note appear chromatic as in like its actually R1R2 same as R1D1?
Have you heard this rendition of the same 👇
[3/10, 10:21 PM] Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic: Nope will do thanks 😇✨
[3/11, 8:30 AM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: Please introduce yourselves
This is ... I am fresher of kmc and I learnt some classical music at my 4th class but not carnatic and I am actually interested in learning carnatic music
[3/11, 8:38 AM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: @ Please introduce yourselves
[3/11, 8:42 AM] : Hello everyone, I am ... of 2022 batch at kmc
I have quite an intrest in carnatic music and still learning it from few years
[3/11, 8:50 AM] : Hii everyone
This is ... I am fresher of kmc.I am very much interested in learning carnatic music.
[3/11, 8:53 AM] Rakesh Biswas: I guess @Vishnu and @Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic and some of the others can start teaching us here @Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims ?
[3/11, 8:54 AM] Rakesh Biswas: 👆Shall we begin with the first melakarta raga shared here?
[3/11, 8:56 AM] Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic: I teach carnatic basics during weekends . If you're interested I'll be more than happy to help✨😇
[3/11, 8:59 AM] Raj Kumar Psychologist: This group name and purpose should be not just to learn but use music to heal patients I believe. Music therapy should be used
[3/11, 9:00 AM] Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic: Yes will work on that as well
[3/11, 9:00 AM] Raj Kumar Psychologist: I use it in my sessions but in a way not to make the patient learn music but to understand the psyche of the person
[3/11, 9:01 AM] Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic: Yes ofcourse we used it in dentistry also as white noise during small surgeries
[3/11, 9:01 AM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: @Rakesh Biswas Our 'Music as a tool to understand Digital Psyche' thesis?
[3/11, 9:02 AM] Raj Kumar Psychologist: Any rhythmic sound generated in nature I term it as music. It doesn't have to come from vocal chords
[3/11, 9:03 AM] Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic: Exactly
[3/11, 9:03 AM] Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic: It's basically a sound
[3/11, 9:03 AM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: Yesss
[3/11, 9:03 AM] Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic: It can be from any object !
[3/11, 9:03 AM] Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic: Or nature like you said .
[3/11, 9:04 AM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: Birds do it all the time
[3/11, 9:04 AM] Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic: Yass
[3/11, 9:08 AM] Raj Kumar Psychologist: Iam listening to the rhythmic sound of my shoes when I walk now
[3/11, 9:09 AM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: Dance?
[3/11, 9:09 AM] Raj Kumar Psychologist: Walk
[3/11, 9:09 AM] Raj Kumar Psychologist: Hope hindustani music is also allowed in the group
[3/11, 9:10 AM] Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic: Ofcourse
[3/11, 9:10 AM] Raj Kumar Psychologist: I am a core fan of hindustani and not carnatic
[3/11, 9:10 AM] Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic: I am of music in itself 😇
[3/11, 9:11 AM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: All kinds of music is allowed
[3/11, 9:11 AM] Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic: No preference music of any kind ! Just happened to learn carnatic that's all . It the sound like I said that fascinates me
[3/11, 9:11 AM] Raj Kumar Psychologist: Good I listen to European, African and latin American Music
[3/11, 9:11 AM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: I'm a core fan of Rock n Roll,enjoys every kind
[3/11, 9:11 AM] Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic: I love blues and soul
[3/11, 9:12 AM] Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic: I love rock and pop equally
[3/11, 9:20 AM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: They say that each melakartha and raga has unique ability to induce a certain kind of emotion in the brain.Like,one raga induces happiness,another sadness and etc.
We would like to know more about it from you
[3/11, 9:26 AM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: https://youtu.be/rG1sCydzJTY
For example,this song causes 'bradycardia'
[3/11, 9:28 AM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: @Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic I'm not a singer or musician lol,but it's an observational finding
[3/11, 10:38 AM] Raj Kumar Psychologist: Dorakuna ituvanti seva
[3/11, 10:40 AM] Rakesh Biswas: Which version? Thyagaraja's original version in Bilahari or the film version in kalyani?
[3/11, 10:40 AM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: 'Manasa sancharare'
[3/11, 10:41 AM] Raj Kumar Psychologist: https://youtu.be/497WpG1HXR0
[3/11, 10:41 AM] Rakesh Biswas: This is in Kalyani
[3/11, 10:42 AM] Rakesh Biswas: That is in sama and the film stuck to the original version
[3/11, 11:44 AM] +91 : I learned carnatic music for few years in the past..bt I stopped learning due to academics ..I'm grateful tht I get to continue to learn this music again..
[3/11, 11:50 AM] Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic: This is one of my favourite annamayya keerthanas . It is a raagamalika the Pallavi and anupallavi are in karaharapriya ragam and the Charanam is in mayamalavagoula ragam
[3/11, 12:02 PM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: Ragamaalika means more than 1 raga in a song?
[3/11, 12:04 PM] Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic: Yes a combination of ragas
[3/11, 12:04 PM] Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic: Just making it more complex more the complexity more the beauty
[3/11, 12:08 PM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: Amazing lyrics💯💓.
Actually all Annamayya songs have great meaning.
He's a pakka socialist.Used devotion and music to spread his philosophy
[3/11, 12:08 PM] Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic: Haha most of the composers are
[3/11, 12:09 PM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: https://youtu.be/vQ8elC_hLkU
👆🏻Lyrics of this song is pure socialism
[3/11, 12:09 PM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: Do you also play any instruments?
[3/11, 12:11 PM] Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic: Not really just some doodling on the keys
[3/11, 12:11 PM] Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic: I just started learning uke
[3/11, 12:12 PM] Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic: It's a cute fascinating instrument for me
[3/11, 12:12 PM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: Ukulele?
[3/11, 12:30 PM] Rakesh Biswas: I'm assuming this is @Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic 's voice?
When was it recorded?
[3/11, 12:37 PM] +91 : Bhaja govindam is a classic example..of ragamalika
[3/11, 12:37 PM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: Yess
[3/11, 12:38 PM] Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic: I recorded it just today morning after my class
[3/11, 12:40 PM] Rakesh Biswas: Were you teaching the class?
[3/11, 12:42 PM] Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic: Yes teaching :)
[3/11, 12:44 PM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: Do you have any recordings of your classes?
[3/11, 12:59 PM] Rakesh Biswas: It would be great if we could share links to our YouTube channels where we may have archived our own music (either what we listened to or what we ourselves created or performed)
[3/11, 1:28 PM] Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic: I have some audio files that I send out to kids I haven't shot any videos cuz they are too young and it would distract them
[3/11, 2:53 PM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: Whats the difference between Hindustani and Carnatic music?
@Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic
@Rakesh Biswas
@Raj Kumar Psychologist
[3/11, 3:03 PM] Rakesh Biswas: In a single phrase
Carnatic is characterized by kampita gamakams which is rare in hindusthani
[3/11, 3:03 PM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: What's Kampita gamakams?
[3/11, 3:04 PM] Rakesh Biswas: That's for ChatGPT or google to answer
[3/11, 6:15 PM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: @kmc tribe.
Did you guys meet Swaha?
She's an amazing doctor and biologist.17 years old.
Already working on patients and independent projects in collaboration with HBCSE(Homi Bhabha Centre for Science Education)
[3/11, 6:31 PM] Lakshya Kr: Hello everyone
[3/11, 6:31 PM] Lakshya Kr: This is Lakshya from Bihar
[3/11, 6:31 PM] Lakshya Kr : Did my MBBS from government medical college, Gujarat
[3/11, 6:31 PM] Lakshya Kr: Interested in research and learning new things
[3/11, 6:34 PM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: Great to have you here with us Dr Lakshya.
This is a collaborative group to delve deeper into the relationship between music and health/wellbeing.
[3/11, 6:53 PM] V : I am pursuing my sangeeta visharadha in carnatic music in potti sree ramulu university , this is my final year
So this group holds a lot of advantages for me..so thank you for that!!
[3/11, 6:53 PM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: That's highly inspiring.
We are glad and fortunate to have you in this group with us.
@Rakesh Biswas
@Raj Kumar Psychologist
[3/11, 6:54 PM] +91 88974 74396: Lots to learn and practice!
[3/11, 6:54 PM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: @Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic
Mam,Vishnu and you can be our guides in learning music
[3/11, 7:02 PM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: Can you elaborate us how the curriculum of carnatic music works?
What do they teach first?
[3/11, 7:04 PM] V : It's just like how u learn ur Normal english , the 7 swaras( swarasthanas) are same as the alphabets
[3/11, 7:05 PM] V : Not literally same but that's how the ciriculum works
[3/11, 7:06 PM] V : U learn the basics and then make your way upto the complex ones
[3/11, 7:06 PM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: Sa,ri,ga,ma,pa,da,ni?
I went to carnatic classes for month or two while I was 10years old.
My teacher told that,each base sound originates from a different region,aka Chakra.
Like,sa from below umbilicus and ni from around neck.
Might be wrong.
Looking forward to know more about it
[3/11, 7:08 PM] V : Yes they are the 7 swarasthanas and yes each swara is known to have different place of origin in our body
[3/11, 8:19 PM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: What's 'ornamentation' aka 'Kampita gamaka'?
[3/11, 8:20 PM] Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic: U know a pendulum oscillates
[3/11, 8:20 PM] Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic: Just like that u make the notes oscillate using ur vocal chords
[3/11, 8:20 PM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: Gravity and lateral force?
[3/11, 8:21 PM] Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic: Kampitam in Sanskrit mean shake
[3/11, 8:22 PM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: Gamaka means?
[3/11, 8:22 PM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: Can we call it 'vibration of vocal cords'?
[3/11, 8:22 PM] Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic: So u know how gamakas sound right ornamented note .
[3/11, 8:23 PM] Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic: It's just the way of describing the way it sounds
[3/11, 8:23 PM] Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic: Ornamental note - gamaka
[3/12, 11:23 AM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: Is 'swaram' same as 'raga'?
[3/12, 11:27 AM] Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic: Swaram is note
[3/12, 11:27 AM] Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic: And raga is made of swaras . It's a tune
[3/12, 11:27 AM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: Got it
[3/12, 11:28 AM] Rakesh Biswas: Swaram is "notes" also known as "vibrational frequency data points" that make up each ragam which can be just scalar (as in or aka Western scales) and vectoral as in Carnatic where the oscillations on the notes (vectoral spins) can make the same scale look very different as in ragam hanuma todi which is the same scale as sindhu bhairavi but sounds way different due to the vectorals
OK the above is something like a thesis I have been developing so you may not find it mentioned elsewhere but largely is more or less valid given a few stretches here and there. Also wish we can develop this thesis further and publish it with the enthusiasm of this group.
Wait till I share the links between AI and carnatic.
[3/12, 11:29 AM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: Looking forward for it sir
[3/12, 11:36 AM] Rakesh Biswas: And now the analogy of carnatic to medicine 👇
All these assortment of notes (vibrational event frequency data points) that can be arranged in different scalar permutations and combinations (sequence of events) giving rise to scalar raga patterns (aka simple diagnosis in medicine) or may have different parallel stream of events (aka clinical complexity due to comorbidities or different organ system involvement aka different illnesses playing together in the same individual and in Western Music this is analogous to harmony when different scales are played together concordantly).
The vectoral complexity of carnatic music is only around one single illness aka sequence of event data points with their individual vibrational frequency.
Those who work with us in our PaJR groups may be able to understand this easily
[3/12, 11:38 AM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: Sir can I add all these group members to our PaJR volunteers group.
[3/12, 11:38 AM] Rakesh Biswas: Ask them. Only if they are interested and not scared of getting overdosed on our medicine practice! 🙂
[3/12, 6:09 PM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: Cuckoo's call
Date : 12/03/23
Time : 6:06pm
Location : Malvan Sindhudurg Maharashtra
Coordinates : 16.0631° N, 73.4711° E
[3/12, 8:29 PM] Rakesh Biswas: Music and Machine learning :
[3/12, 8:56 PM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: Well,that kinda broadened the perspective
[3/12, 9:41 PM] Rakesh Biswas: If some of you have been able to reach till 17"30 of this video, you may realize that one of the academic cognitive aims of listening to music (in this project aided by ML AI) is diagnosing the overall pattern of the vibrational frequency events perceived (diagnosis as in previously identified patterns that have been labeled with a name) and here is where the analogy of music and medicine begins and I wonder if any of you are interested in learning more using some sample patterns that I can share for you to diagnose using the quick and dirty tools, namely internet searching or even asking around as a first step to learning, unless you are already ahead into advanced levels in this game where you can give imaginative hints and hand hold other less advanced learners instead of blurting out the answer straight away.
So here goes :
Identify this raga from a popular telegu song of yesteryears 👇
[3/14, 7:25 PM] Sai Charan Kulakarni Kims Med: Thanks alot @Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims it's my pleasure to be a part of this team. I am Dr. Sai Charan currently doing my final year residency dept of General Medicine. As a part of recreation i enjoy music, watching series, intrested in research.
[3/14, 7:26 PM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: It's our pleasure to have you with us sir
[3/14, 8:00 PM] Rakesh Biswas: 👆There were no takers to diagnosing the raga in the telegu song link shared above. I guess not many people may like to engage in Google diagnosing ragas similar to how google diagnosis of illnesses are currently frowned upon.
This one in the same raga (overall tune as @Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic may like to put it) would be easier through google searching 👇
[3/14, 8:01 PM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: It's not that there are no takers sir.
It maybe a case that our professional takers are busy in their another ontological constraints
[3/14, 8:01 PM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: We are looking at this project(group) in longterm
[3/14, 8:01 PM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: No hurries or pressure for anyone
[3/14, 8:02 PM] Rakesh Biswas: 👍
[3/15, 8:04 AM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: Maandh raga and Aadi thala?
[3/15, 8:07 AM] Rakesh Biswas: Notice any similarity between the previous telegu and this Tamil version the same ragam?
@Frashita Kims 2014 BDS Carnatic @Vishnu and others :
What are the vibrational event data points (aka swarams) that are characteristic of this diagnosis?
[3/15, 8:07 AM] V : I thought it was somewhere realted to shankarabhranam , but could be maand as it's a derived or jenya ragam or shankarabhranam
[3/15, 8:09 AM] V : Apologies as not able to find it exactly as just merely listening to the kriti and telling the ragam takes a lot of expertise and practice and I have not even reached to the level!
[3/15, 8:12 AM] Rakesh Biswas: Well here's the Informatics and expertise connection I need you all to understand and how we are making this "music and medicine" exercise a demonstration of case based medical Informatics (Dinesh's topic for G20).
Google can identify ragas using it's informatics brain based on collective user driven contribution of information to the www
Similarly every patient can find out his diagnosis provided there are adequate data points around his her illness in the www
[3/15, 8:14 AM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: If we have effectively captured all the data points which lead the patient to come to hospital?
[3/15, 8:15 AM] Rakesh Biswas: There need not be any hospital. Just human beings educated enough to help each other should be enough
[3/15, 8:15 AM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: On point sir
[3/15, 8:16 AM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: Again,due to industrial evolution and etc,few things like road traffic accidents etc only need hospitals
[3/15, 8:31 AM] Raj Kumar Psychologist: Sir, the patient knows the root cause of his physical issues in more than 90 percent of the cases. But he depends so much on external faculty like the madical fraternity that he loses himself and cannot think for himself. We have Highjacked his mental faculties
[3/15, 8:34 AM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: True
[3/15, 8:34 AM] Rakesh Biswas: That's why we need to make them listen to their own music before taking it to the doctors
[3/15, 8:36 AM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: Sometimes the music maybe Death metal,black metal or straightup crossover thrash.
Which needs to be looked on by the patient himselves
[3/15, 8:36 AM] Rakesh Biswas: They know their own experiences better but the professional trouble shooters have general knowledge that may help if delivered as per the requirements. Musical harmony matching note by note is precision medicine?
[3/15, 8:37 AM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: Patient is familiar with n of 1 data points
While fraternity is exposed to n of multitude data points as part of their curriculum
[3/15, 8:37 AM] Raj Kumar Psychologist: It has happened once after hundreds of years Sir. That is during the Covid period. I felt the huge redundancy of medical fraternity when the people were listening to their healing abilities or to be healthy habit when they knew during covid that medical fraternity is unavailable to address their non existent physical issues
[3/15, 8:40 AM] Rakesh Biswas: It happens everyday when humans die.
Everyday even today a large number will die. During covid there was a small noticeable spike in that number
But those who didnt die listened to bad evidence based advice on TV ,to take steroids, remdesivir etc which needlessly complicated the music
[3/15, 8:43 AM] Raj Kumar Psychologist: People were eating healthy, they breathed fresh air, they spent time with family, the running behind materials had stopped, people were more near to nature. I personally saw many birds chirping which were rare. I even saw ducks with ducklings coming on road. The healing happened spontaneously for the mind body and spirit when the entire world slowed down Sir during covid
[3/15, 8:44 AM] Rakesh Biswas: Yes we need to credit the smaller virus to stop the bigger one 🙂👍
[3/15, 9:47 AM] Rakesh Biswas: This is analogous to doing nothing in healthcare.
Currently it's grossly underrated due to industry drivers which educates us early on to do something (preferably using the tech they need to push)
Doing nothing and just listening to music together pointing out how the multi modal vibrational events as data points make the bigger picture of the diagnosis is what the world needs?
More here from someone who's still scratching the surface 👇
[3/22, 9:50 PM] Rakesh Biswas: 👆We began our musical diagnosis journey with the telegu song linked at the bottom of the post shared here earlier.
Here's another version of the same, stripped off the sahityam (like the DNA that remains if someone strips off the epigenome made of histone among other things).
It's played by a very popular telegu veena player where he jumps to a very high note that is a catchy illustration of the sahityam where the bird song is replicated using the veena at the point where the sahityam mentions it 👇
[3/23, 9:06 PM] Dinesh 2015 Batch Kims: Listen to this audio and check out question number 32 👇
[3/23, 9:13 PM] Rakesh Biswas: Realised there were 4 parts to this question paper and I meant 32 of part 4!!
This is from one of our patient's PaJR groups who graciously keeps sharing his metapsyched mind body connections through the music he loves.
PaJR link :
[3/23, 10:01 PM] Rakesh Biswas: Now the only issue is that (and it's often an issue with many of Rabindranath's carnatic borrowals) that although the Carnatic piece is named in the university exam question paper, it's very difficult to actually get to hear that original carnatic song from which Tagore borrowed.
Anyone here can share any link to the carnatic composition "Purna Chandranane" that apparently Tagore borrowed from?
[3/23, 10:12 PM] Rakesh Biswas: [3/23, 10:06 PM] Rakesh Biswas: No no. See that university paper question linked above. We are talking about Carnatic "purna chandranane" that Tagore borrowed from
[3/23, 10:07 PM] Dinesh: Did Tagore borrow from a Thyagaraja keerthana?
[3/23, 10:09 PM] Rakesh Biswas: He did for other songs but not sure what kriti is this.
More details here 👇
Written on: 1883
Published in: Tatwabodhini Patrika
Collection: Robichhaya
Swarabitan: 45
Notation by: Protibha Debi
Bhanga Gaan
Notes: Derived from a Kannad song "Purna Chandranane".
[3/23, 10:57 PM] Rakesh Biswas: Finally got the lyrics to the song here in ragam hari kambhoji.
Can anyone share a YouTube link to the actual singing of this song?
[3/24, 7:21 AM] Rakesh Biswas: Interesting how one entire song of Swati Tirunal can become extinct as far as the online ecosystem is concerned.
Here's another interesting number in the ragam maand aka overall tune with a sequence pattern known as maand.
Just notice how the composer uses gaps in the nucleotide sequence to create an effect that could make one think that what are introns then.
The gaps in these exon sequences create a separate effect than introns.
Introns could be analogous to the advertisements in YouTube?
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