Tuesday, October 28, 2025

PaJR consent form modified for DPDP Compliance

Informed Patient Consent and Authorization Form


For Sharing of De-Identified Case Report (E-Log / Online Publication)


1. Purpose of Sharing

▢ I understand that healthcare professionals may share my anonymized clinical details, including relevant history, examination findings, radiology or laboratory images, and treatment details, for the purpose of education, discussion, and professional collaboration.

2. Nature of Information and Anonymization

▢ My identifiable personal information (such as name, contact details, address, identification numbers, or facially recognizable images) will not be shared. Only de-identified or anonymized data necessary for the stated purpose will be shared. The health professionals handling my data will comply with the Digital Personal Data Protection Act, 2023, and relevant medical ethics and privacy standards.

3. Risk of Re-identification

▢ I understand that complete anonymity cannot be absolutely guaranteed and that there remains a small possibility that I or my relative may be identified by someone familiar with the case.

4. Scope and Medium of Publication 

I understand that my de-identified case report may be immediately shared or published in:

▢ Online academic or professional discussion groups (e.g., WhatsApp, Facebook, blogs, forums)

▢ Printed or online medical journals, educational websites, or institutional repositories and i shall be informed whenever they are published in journals.

▢ Other educational or research platforms, subject to compliance with applicable data protection and professional standards.

5. Rights of the Data Principal (as per DPDP Act, 2023)

I have been informed that:

▢ I have the right to withdraw this consent at any time before publication, by contacting the consent taker in writing or electronically.

▢ I have the right to access, correct, or restrict further sharing of my personal data, if any personal identifiers are inadvertently included.

▢ I can contact the designated Data Protection Officer / Grievance Officer of the institution for any concerns or grievances related to the use of my information.


6. Role of Treating Physician

▢  I understand that the E-log of online discussion on the team-based learning platform (https://pajr.in/) is meant solely for patient and health professional educational collaboration in good faith and not as a substitute for medical advice or treatment from my primary physician, who remains responsible for my clinical care. 
I also consent to my data being discussed and used on the platform to identify similar past cases for my benefit and to support future patients with comparable conditions. I understand that the goal of PaJR is to create awareness and collaboration between patients and all other stakeholders in healthcare!


7. Language and Understanding

▢ The purpose and implications of this consent have been explained to me in a language I understand. I have been given an opportunity to ask questions, and all my queries have been satisfactorily answered.

Name of Patient / Legal Guardian / Relative: ___________________________
Signature: ___________________________
Date: ___________________________
Relationship to Patient (if applicable): ___________________________

Name & Designation of Consent Taker: ___________________________
Signature: ___________________________
Date: ___________________________

Anonymized Identifier (if applicable): ___________________________

Institution Address, Mobile No,
Grievance / Data Protection Contact: 

Dr Aditya Samitinjay, Physician , Endocrinologist, NHS, UK, CEO, https://pajr.in/,  aditya.samitinjay@nhs.netadityasam93@gmail.com

Dr Sagnika Das,
Lawyer and patient advocate, PaJR volunteer, sagnika.mtb10@gmail.com

Professor Rakesh Biswas, PaJR volunteer, rakesh7biswas@gmail.com

Professor Maruthi Sharma, Epidemiologist and Public health specialist, WA: +91 70138 31179

More about PaJR: https://pajr.in/


Monday, October 27, 2025

PROBLEM BASED SELF-DIRECTED LIFE LONG PARTICIPATORY LEARNING IN MEDICAL EDUCATORS AND THEIR AUDIENCE; REFLECTIVE LESSONS LEARNT FROM A LECTURE SERIES

PROBLEM BASED SELF-DIRECTED LIFE LONG PARTICIPATORY LEARNING IN MEDICAL EDUCATORS AND THEIR AUDIENCE; REFLECTIVE LESSONS LEARNT FROM A LECTURE SERIES





**Rakesh Biswas, Shashikiran Umakanth, Mohit Shetty, Manjunath Hande and JS Nagra***  
Melaka Manipal Medical College, Manipal academy of higher education, Melaka, Malaysia

* **Corresponding author:** 

Department of Medicine, People's college of medical sciences, Bhanpur, Bypass road, Bhopal-462010 (M.P.) India Email: rakesh7biswas@gmail.com

---

**Abstract**

**Aim.** this describes a process of how a medical educator and his audience may experience enhanced participatory learning in a didactic lecture set up comparing two different teaching methods. It has implications on how to improve communication between medical lecturers and their audience participants even in non-university large group continuing medical learning sessions.

**Design.** This was a qualitative study with ethnographic attention to process as well as quantitative and qualitative evaluation of student perceptions to illustrate the process.

**Method.** Two different lecture methods were used, over a period of 6 months, (one semester), by one lecturer (participant observer). The first method (with minimal audience participation) was applied for the first half of semester 8 medicine lectures and the second method (with maximal audience participation), was applied in the second half, for the same group of students, by the same lecturer (participant observer). Student feed back with particular emphasis on their perception of the second method was taken at the end of the second session using a structured as well as open-ended questionnaire.

**Results.** The process of lecture taking that evolved spontaneously in a problem oriented manner particularly to address the problem of student attention and participation in lecture sessions was described. This was also illustrated with student feedback. 106 students from a group of 117 responded (90%) to the questionnaire. An overwhelming 79% felt that inserting a patient narrative into the clinical query was stimulating. Many students (60%) also seemed to agree that there was no scope of learning without understanding in the second method. Substantial amount of students felt that the second method had enhanced their involvement and participation in the topic along with an improvement in their information finding abilities (53%).

On the down side only 26% felt the new method reduced their dependence on class notes with only 30% able to retain more information on the topic with this method and around 30% agreed to have received adequate feedback during the session. 48% agreed that this method would not better their university assessment performances.

**Conclusion. Inserting patient narratives with interjecting queries in lecture sessions** can stimulate students to participate but free participation may convert a lecture into a large group PBL with its attendant disadvantages. Controlled participation in a patient centered lecture augmented by portable information resources can promote participatory self-directed life long learning in health care givers of future.

**Keywords:** Problem based, self-directed life long learning, medical education, maximal audience participation.



*“Half of what you are taught as medical students will in ten years have been shown to be wrong. And the trouble is, none of your teachers know which half”*  

> Sydney Burwell, Dean, Harvard Medical School 1956

Problem based learning (PBL) is a process of life long experiential learning. This write up is a process description of how medical educators learn utilizing problem based approaches to promote better learning among student participants even in a didactic lecture setting. Even as non-participatory didactic lectures become extinct in formal educational curricula they may still survive in large group conference addresses and other health care giver learning sessions. This write up aims to draw a parallel and address the issue of improving participatory communication between lecturers and audience even in large group non university medical learning sessions.

Traditional didactic lectures have been all but wiped out by PBLs in medical curricula. Many lecturers have little formal training in conducting didactic lecture sessions except from observations made on their own lecturers in their student past. Not all didactic lectures they may have had in their student careers would have been enjoyable though.

The most enjoyable didactic lecture sessions may have been the ones where the lecturer not only ensures full attention and participation from her students but also helps to integrate their past background knowledge with current foreground information provided in a practically applicable manner such that **it generates a healthy discussion** with raising and answering of queries. In short the traditional didactic lecture ceases to be a one way dynamic but multiple feedback loops are generated to create learning even for the lecturer conducting the session (1).

#### **The Problem**

Didactic lecture classes have evolved dramatically over the last century that has seen a profusion of visual aids to impart factual information and yet student attention spans during lectures are abysmal. As soon as the PowerPoint slides are switched on many brains automatically switch off to sleep (induced by unseen sedatives radiating from the slides).

Lecture handouts are another fallout of the PowerPoint movement in didactic lecturing and there is a strong suspicion that they may be nothing but short term memorizing tools very often discarded and forgotten after assessments and have little value in developing skills like ability to best utilize available information for medical problem solving. Very often they dissuade students from reading a variety of evidence-based resources that exist in textbooks, CDs or online and preparing their own notes. This constitutes a serious impediment to inculcating self-directed life long learning in medical students.

The effort which the lecturer puts into preparing her lecture notes serves to enhance her own self directed learning on the topic and the by product of this transferred to students (In the form of notes) may encourage rote memorization rather than thoughtful learning.

One of us (SU) often compares self-directed learning to a multi-course dinner and lecture notes to the partially/completely digested food material in the lecturer’s distal ileum. While the former is delicious and enjoyable while consuming, the latter is definitely not so. This comparison is to give the students a fair idea about the ‘advantages’ of self-directed learning and reading from textbooks and other authentic resources.

Undergraduate students dependant on short term lecture note memories may feel overwhelmed when they step into a post graduate environment that demands greater information handling for smoother medical problem solving activities.

Very often the didactic lecture session may run the danger of becoming just an avenue for students to collect the handouts/notes with preference given to utilize the rest of the lecture session for catching up on the much needed sleep.

#### **Possible Solutions**

Over the years lecture sessions have evolved in terms of structure so much so that it has been successfully broken into small group PBL sessions that have radically transformed learning into a maximal student participation phenomena with the role of a lecturer suitably tuned down to a facilitator.

In our institute the number of scheduled lecture classes in medicine (taught in 6 semesters) have been brought down from 200 hours to 90 hours over a period of 3 years along with an overall reduction in number of didactic lecture hours for all other subjects taught in 10 semesters (see figure 1) and yet for a lecturer who has to take 20 lectures for a semester spaced out as one lecture per week, the challenge of holding students attention during the lecture classes remains significant.

#### **Design**

This was a qualitative study with ethnographic attention to process as well as quantitative and qualitative evaluation of student perceptions to illustrate the process.

#### **Method**

Two different lecture methods were used, over a period of 6 months, (one semester), by one lecturer (participant observer). The first method (with minimal student participation) was applied for the first half of semester 8 medicine lectures and the second method (with maximal student participation), was applied in the second half, for the same group of students, by the same lecturer (participant observer). Student feed back with particular emphasis on their perception of the second method was taken at the end of the second session using a structured as well as open-ended questionnaire.




##### **First Method (Minimal Audience participatory)**

The lecture starts with a disease scenario, preferably an engaging narrative that also stimulates the student's affective domain other than the cognitive and psychomotor domains so that the emphasis is not just on content knowledge and factual recall [2].

Throughout the lecture factual information is also inserted at relevant points in the narrative.

##### **Inadequacies in the first method**

Although 15 minutes were earmarked at the end of the presentation for student participation in the form of queries or comments regarding the topic, there was none. This method was mostly a one-way delivery by the lecturer with little student participation and in spite of the narrative, few students still managed to doze off.

**Need for student participation**  
It was this lack of students’ participation that gave birth to the necessity for a different method at the middle of the semester. One of the main reasons for students’ lack of participation was unavailability of information on the topic. It was there fore decided to let them use their own information resources to answer the questions raised by the topic during the class. The majority used textbooks as their information sources with one or two using electronic resources (Portable digital assistants). This it was hypothesized would lead to initiation of independent self-directed learning on the topic instead of pure dependence on the lecture handouts for factual memorization.




##### **Second Method (Maximal Audience Participatory)**

The lecture still begins with the disease scenario/narrative but at each step in the presentation student participation is invited with a query.

**For Example:**

**_(For the complete example see web link:_**  
http://www.medspan.info/component/option,com__smf/Itemid,84/topic,104.0

_Also all the other lectures taken for this semester have been posted on to this web link for reference:_  
http://www.medspan.info/medical-downloads/powerpoint-presentations/student-participation-lecture-series/

The following example demonstrates a one-hour lecture session using a PowerPoint modification of an Internet patient narrative interspersed with queries to invite student participation. Patient consent was established by email (later the same has been taken as a signed document).

**A Chronic Bleeding Disorder**

**PowerPoint Slide 1**

Patient’s diary— (http://www.itppeople.com/joany.htm)

*It all started in the summer of... when I returned from a long weekend ... it was cool and rainy there. I ate too many gravy coated potato fries, drove home in damp clothes, and caught what I thought was the flu.*

**PowerPoint slide 2**

*It didn’t respond to my usual cure of lying on the sofa and watching four rented videos. In a few weeks I noticed some black and blue marks on my arm and panicked when I didn’t stop bleeding from a small cut. My days became a struggle to continue life, as I once knew it and understand why my body was betraying me.*

As the slides are self-explanatory narratives, the lecturer is silent while displaying them but after letting them go through the slides and their books for 5-10 minutes the lecturer interjects a query:

*What are the natural/physiologic mechanisms for preventing spontaneous bleeds or normal quick cessation of any bleed?*

At the end of the five-minute gap for the student to find out the answer from his/her information resource the microphone is passed around either in a linear or random sequence and students are encouraged to verbalize their thoughts. After 3-4 responses the next PowerPoint projects the possible best response.




**PowerPoint slide 3**

**Physiology of Hemostasis**

The cessation of bleeding from damaged blood vessel. After vessel injury, process of hemostasis takes place in 2 phases: Primary:

1.  Vessel wall contraction
2.  Platelet aggregation & plugging of injured area

Secondary:

3.  Formation of an insoluble fibrin clot due to activation of clotting system

In addition, there is a fibrinolytic system, which actively removes the clot

*What are the abnormalities of hemostasis that may have caused abnormal bleeding in this patient?*

**PowerPoint slide 4**

**Haemorrhagic diseases**

Can result from abnormalities of:

*   Blood vessels
*   Platelets
*   Clotting systems

Lecturer interjects:

Diseases affecting the smaller blood vessels & platelets produce the clinical picture of purpura. Clinical differences in variety of skin bleeds: Petechiae, Purpura, Eschymosis—based on size of the bleed—Petechiae-1-2 mm, Purpura<or=5mm, Eschymosis>5 mm (See Clinical Image)

As this patient’s discussion is going to evolve around thrombocytopenia there is another slide on clotting disorder mentioned in passing (a separate class is generally required to discuss any of them in detail)

**PowerPoint Slide 5**

**Diseases of Clotting System**

*   Congenital (Hemophilia, von-Willebrand’s disease)
*   Acquired Deficiency of Vitamin K dependent clotting factors - severe liver disease, anticoagulant therapy; Hypofibrinogenemia –DIC, destruction of liver

**PowerPoint Slide 6**

Patient’s diary— (http://www.itppeople.com/ioany.htm)

*After a short stint in the hospital for tests, the diagnosis was confirmed... The hematologist wrote it down so I could remember what it stood for. My count was 6,000, a severe case, potentially fatal. I didn’t know what a platelet was.*

Lecturer interjects: What could be the possible reasons for a low platelet count in this patient?

**PowerPoint Slide 7**

**Thrombocytopenia**

**Causes**  
Impaired production: Marrow aplasia, Leukemia, Infiltration, Megaloblastic anemia, Myeloma, Myelofibrosis  
Excessive destruction: ITP, Secondary Immune: SLE, CLL, viruses, Drugs eg. Heparin  
Sequestration: Hypersplenism  
Dilutional: Massive transfusion  
Other: DIC, TTP

(For complete class see supplement 1) It may be pertinent to note that method alone is not adequate. What matters is what happens within the method. [2]

**Table 1. Summarizes the lecture content in terms of PowerPoint, lecturer and audience inputs**

| PowerPoint◯ input | Lecturer’s input | Audience input |
| :--- | :--- | :--- |
| 1) Begins with a projection of patient data in the form of an evocative narrative. | 1) Lecturer develops and interjects relevant queries with respect to pathophysiology, clinical features and management derived from the disease narrative at appropriate intervals explaining and elaborating at the same time on the key word answers projected on the PowerPoint slides. | 1) Respond to queries developed in the patient narrative after accessing their appropriate information resources (books, PDA, colleagues etc) |
| 2) Develops queries based on the patient narrative with regards to patho-physiology clinical features and management. | 2) S/he controls the timing of the PowerPoint slides leaving appropriate time for the students to access their information resources before they respond to the queries. | 2) Add their own queries to the lecturer’s as well as their own comments/opinions on the case scenario. |
| 3) Projects answers to those queries in the form of keywords. | | |

An anonymous student questionnaire was circulated at the end of the semester relating to their feelings on the second method of lecture taking (Supplement 2). The questionnaire contained 13 structured statements related to effect on student participation, classroom stress, enjoyment of group activity, attention spans, effect of patient narrative, dependence on lecture notes, independent reading, understanding vs. memorization, retention, information finding abilities, teacher feedback, assessments and if they looked forward to more such sessions. The responses were obtained on a Likert scale (strongly agree = 5 to strongly disagree=1) to indicate their degree of agreement with the statements in the questionnaire. Three open-ended questions about the positive and negative aspects of the teaching method, and any other free comments were also part of the questionnaire. The quantitative data were entered in Microsoft Excel and averages and percentages were calculated.

#### **Results**

106 students from a group of 117 responded (90%) to the questionnaire. On evaluation of the structured questionnaire responses it was found that the average score for each parameter was positive for most parameters suggesting that the average respondent agreed with most of the statements.

An overwhelming 79% felt that inserting a patient narrative into the clinical query was stimulating. Many students (60%) also seemed to agree that there was no scope of learning without understanding in the second method. Substantial amount of students felt that the second method had enhanced their involvement and participation in the topic along with an improvement in their information finding abilities (53%). Increased stress because of pressure to perform during the session was reported only by 47% of students. 47% felt the new method made them learn more independently and 46% felt they were more attentive as result of it. Only 40% enjoyed working with the whole class as a group.

On the down side only 26% felt the new method reduced their dependence on class notes (which meant that they still needed class notes) with only 30% able to retain more information on the topic with this method and around 30% agreed to have received adequate feedback during the session. 48% agree that this method would not better their university assessment performances. Only 33% of respondents looked forward to more such lecture sessions because of important (but not irreversible) disadvantages in the second method as elaborated in the open ended responses of the 41% who did not look forward to such student participatory sessions.

Following is a summary of positive and negative feelings the students had about the lectures as jotted down in their **open-ended responses**-

##### **Disadvantages**

1.  Student participation is still not total.
2.  At times I felt lost and didn’t like the clinical scenario or the queries (one respondent).
3.  The discussion dragged as students repeated viewpoints in their responses
4.  It was difficult to hear their colleagues at times mumbling into the microphone at the other end of the room
5.  Difficult to take notes

##### **Advantages**

1.  Hearing their student colleague voice their thoughts on the topic encouraged them to think more on it themselves.
2.  No scope of sleeping, more lively and active learning.
3.  Boosted confidence in their ability to verbalize
4.  Initiated healthy reading into the topic without which some of them admittedly would never have opened their text books and only depended on lecturer notes
5.  Promoted critical thinking, exposure to different clinical scenarios and may help them in facing real world patients.

#### **Discussion**

A discussion of the down sides to the second new method needs to be made first and this has again been elaborated very well in the open ended student responses.

Restructuring the didactic lecture to promote more student participation ran the danger of turning the lecture into a large group PBL. Many problems highlighted by the students in their open-ended responses like at times feeling lost and dragged, difficulty hearing their colleagues mumbling into the microphone at the other end of the room are in fact problems associated with large group PBLs.

Our solution for this (which the lecturer has already implemented in subsequent classes) is to let the lecturer keep the control over the microphone and restrict student responses to 2-3 without any repetitions so that the session doesn’t drag and there is more utilization of time. In short there may be just a token participation of students in didactic lectures (as far as student verbalization is concerned). On the other hand some students who wanted the second new pattern to continue mentioned in their open ended responses that hearing their student colleague voice their thoughts on the topic encouraged them to think more on it themselves. With more time (2-3 hour sessions with hourly 10 minute breaks) more audience participation verbalization can easily be accommodated. In a similar virtual lecture session this whole problem of time can be eliminated altogether.

The other feature of this method that encourages them to look for information as the clinical scenario is being presented with queries was received better in the open-ended responses. Most of them agree that it initiated healthy reading into the topic (without which some of whom admittedly would never have opened their text books and only depended on lecturer notes). However here too one of the important situational downside to this method (as viewed by many in the open ended responses) was the inconvenience of carrying heavy textbooks to the classroom (which is incidentally an hours drive away form the main campus). This problem can be easily circumvented using portable electronic information sources like PDAs.

The table 2 summarizes the important differences between the first and second methods:

**Table 2. Differences in the first (minimal student participatory) and second (maximal student participatory) methods**

| Minimal student participatory (first method): | Maximal student participatory (second method): |
| :--- | :--- |
| 1) Clinical scenario/narrative presented without interjected queries<br>2) No information searching stimuli/ time allowed throughout the lecture<br>3) Student participation invited at the end of the session (10-15 minutes) in the form of comments or queries | 1) Queries interspersed throughout the lecture narrative inviting student responses<br>2) Students invited to search their information resources (books, PDAs) for 5-10 minutes following the query generated by the narrative.<br>3) Student participation begins early during the lecture in the form of a) Grasping the narrative generated queries b) Searching answers from their information resources c) Organizing the information in the form of an answer and verbalizing it to share it with the rest of the class. |

The most embraced salient feature of this lecture series (79% of students) was the narrative introduction to the topic and this was a feature common to both the methods (which essentially differed in student participation).

In some instances as in the example, we used virtual patients who had voluntarily posted their stories on the net and were even accessible by email through which they often communicated their willingness to be of help. Students who are natural self directed learners may even be able to communicate with such patients on their own and keep their own follow up in a way getting exposed to ‘continuity of care’ an important aspect of healing. [3]

All education evaluation studies where questionnaire feedback is the only outcome measure would naturally tend to have limitations (these studies are often berated as using student happiness indices). Opinion tends to change and may not be a true measure of what is actually efficacious depending again on what the aims are. Also as part of an ethnographic approach we haven’t really concentrated on the outcome but have tried to detail the process of experiential learning in medical educators and students [4].

The aim of these lectures were to predominantly develop self directed learning in the audience by stimulating them to read more variety of information sources on a given topic and other than their own opinion the other way to assess the variety of learning they have been through would be for the lecturer/mentor to participate in a daily feedback session with them where students email their learning narratives to their mentor for daily guidance and approval. We are working on developing such a mentoring system at present in the curriculum.

The most meaningful outcome would be to witness our students grow up to be selfdirected learners so much so that they can actually teach their lecturers a thing or two.

From an individual or health professional perspective medical learning may need to be more bottom up user driven. They may require knowing only what is meaningful to their given situation or problem at hand at that particular point of time. In such a situation outcomes may be seldom generalized. Formal assessment outcomes that represent tests of factual information retaining abilities and are learnt by many students only to clear the assessments may not represent real life health caregiver behavior [5].

It has also been observed that while teaching strategies that foster learner-to-learner interactions and self directed learning lead to more active engagement among learners, the learners themselves may not value the session much (6). This was also observed in our present study (depicted as disadvantages of the maximal student participatory method).

It has been suggested that it is the unprepared/ ill prepared student who often faces difficulty in situations like this where peer-to-peer interaction is involved. While situational approach facilitates active learning, the unprepared (naïve) students may have difficulty with the process. (7)

To reduce student unprepared ness we allowed them to utilize their information resources before they responded to the clinical scenario generated queries and found (lecturer’s personal observations in class) that students who were otherwise classified as bad (based on their past assessment performances) were able to participate rather meaningfully well in the discussion.

In real life, health carers practicing evidence-based medicine need to continually keep themselves updated by looking up and appraising the variety of evidence based literature stimulated by clinical queries raised in their day-to-day practice. They need to attend CME workshops with their portable information sources (PDAs) so that they can achieve full participation in meaningful discussion with the presenter.

Our teaching method has been a modest effort to replicate this real life health care professional behavior that would prepare our undergraduate medical students to make a smoother transition when they step into real world medicine.

Our experience with didactic lectures may even benefit educational cultures where they are almost extinct (like in some universities) but still survive disguised, often making their presence felt in large group conference addresses and health care giver learning sessions in various forms.

#### **Summary Points**

**What is Already Known on This Topic**

1.  In medical education “There is no teacher or student only different categories of medical learners.”
2.  Medical educators also need to use PBL techniques along with their students to further their own learning in medical education
3.  A common problem identified is the lack of audience attention and participation in didactic lectures.

**What This Study Adds**

1.  This ethnographic study with the lecturer as a participant observer describes a process of lecture taking that evolved in response to the problem identified.
2.  A lecture method was devised that projected evocative Internet narratives aimed at both the cognitive and affective domains of the audience.
3.  The projected narrative generated queries that encouraged the audience to search their information sources before verbalizing their thoughts, sharing it with the class.
4.  This may help to simulate real life health care professional behavior that would prepare undergraduate medical students to make a smoother transition when they step into real world medicine. It also highlights the issue of improving participatory communication between lecturers and their audience even in nonuniversity medical learning sessions.

#### **Acknowledgements**

**Contributors:** RB was involved in the conception and design of the study, collected all data, and contributed to the analysis and interpretation of the data along with drafting the paper. SU, MS, MH and JSN were involved in the conception and design of the study, supervised data collection, and contributed to the analysis of the data and final version of the paper. In addition SU was instrumental in drafting the paper.

**Competing interests:** None

**Funding received:** None

#### **References**

*   [1] Collins, J. Education techniques for lifelong learning: giving a PowerPoint presentation: the art of communicating effectively. _Radiographics_. 2004 Jul-Aug; 24(4): 1185-92
*   [2] Azila NM, Problem based learning: does it matter what we call it? _Journal of the University of Malaya Medical Center_, 2006; Supplement 1: 5-8
*   [3] Haggerty JL, Reid RJ, Freeman GK, Starfield BH, Adair CE, McKendry R., _Continuity of care: a multidisciplinary review_. BMJ. 2003 Nov 22; 327(7425):1219-21.
*   [4] Savage J. Ethnography and health care. _BMJ_ 2000; 321: 1400-1402
*   [5] McManus IC, Richards P, Winder BC, Sproston KA. Clinical experience, performance in final examinations, and learning style in medical students: prospective study. _BMJ_ 1998; 316: 345-350
*   [6] Haidet P, Morgan RO, O'Malley K, Moran BJ, Richards BF. A Controlled Trial of Active Versus Passive Learning Strategies in a Large Group Setting. _Advances in Health Sciences Education_ 2004; 9(1):15-27
*   [7] Richardson D. Using situational physiology in a didactic lecture setting. _Advan Physiol Educ_ 1996; 271:61-67

---
*In: Journal of Education Research, Volume 3, Issue 4, pp. 1–14. ISSN: 1935-052X. © 2009 Nova Science Publishers, In.*

Friday, October 24, 2025

UDLCO CRH: Degrees of freedom in cognitive embodiments engaged in user driven robotic surgery

Summary: Underlying the technical discourse is a philosophical inquiry into the role of machines: Should they mimic human actions or transcend them? Is precision enough, or must adaptability be preserved?




Conversational transcripts:

[22/10, 17:57]huv1: We are the provider of the drug interaction checker/CDS by the name of CIMS/MIMS Integrated. In India almost major corporate hospitals use our solution . More than 20K hospitals use our solution across Asia -Pacific


[22/10, 17:57]huv1: https://cds.mims.com/


[22/10, 17:57]huv1: You can get in touch with us for more details.


[23/10, 12:53]huv2: Couple of questions. One. Are the contents mapped to SNOMED CT (CDCI as extension). Two. What are the costs involved?


[23/10, 13:38]huv1: Sir, the work on SNOMED CT mapping is currently in progress. We plan to launch it first for Australia, followed by India. At present, ICD-10 is being used for Drug–Health /Disease alerts.


[23/10, 13:54]huv2: Okay. 
And the costs involved?


[23/10, 14:07]huv1: Sir, the annual subscription fee depends on the number of modules subscribed, as well as the number of beds and sites. I will share the detailed information with you shortly.


[23/10, 14:20]huv2: Sure. Most digital systems would work on a per user basis. Number of beds and sites mean the model is facility driven.


[23/10, 18:02]huv2: Fascinating post by a college classmate…


[23/10, 18:23]hu3: So robotic surgery has so many other goodies apart from the precision that it was meant to deliver?

This will then justify the huge Capex sunk into it


[23/10, 18:40]hu4: Just my (unsolicited) 2cents to this:


Robotic surgery, insofar as orthopedic surgery (i refer here predominantly to THA, THR and Robotic Pedicle Screw Insertion) is concerned seems to be mostly gimmickry. 


It definitely:


 - Provides an increased 'feeling' of security

 - A harder boundary for the margin of error

 - Slightly faster turnaround for the patient

 - lesser blood loss, faster TAT, perhaps less pain, earlier mobilization

But nothing that a reasonably thoughtful and experienced surgeon (say someone who has done ~100 of these procedures each) can't achieve by herself. 

Also, in all humility, I feel, it disincentivizes adaptability. One starts running away from those super-complex cases (40 degree valgus etc) instead of seeking them out. 

Happy to receive brickbats for this opinion.


[23/10, 18:42]huv2: Needless to say, I completely disagree. I reject the notion in its entirety.


[23/10, 18:42]hu4: That said, there are specific cases where it makes the patient's and the surgeon's life slightly easier:


Deformity correction in spine, skull base fixations and the like.


[23/10, 18:44]hu5: Any machine is supposed to be used to overcome difficult conditions for humans. If the humans are far better already, machines may not help. Whether AI or Robotics - both are best applied to overcome human limitations rather than trying to mimic actions which the humans do better.


[23/10, 18:46]hu4: Till the time it becomes less capex heavy, I remain guardedly skeptical. 
(except for the specific instances I mentioned). 

Hopefully, with the pace of innovation, we are soon going to enter an era of sustainable arthroplasties and pedicle screw insertions. I look forward with anticipation for that day.


[23/10, 18:46]hu6: There is a lack of meta analysis level of evidence of robotics used to perform various surgeries, though each robotics surgery has different maturity levels across the hospitals to make real world impact and outcomes combining the advancement of robotics and surgeons adaptation over the period of time


[23/10, 18:48]hu4: +1

Ultimately, in the balance of things, the net RoI is a function of the technological maturity of the solution, the indication for which it is used, the ecosystem in which it is being used etc.


[23/10, 19:44] hu3: I was told it is for areas where human wrist can't twist and turn. Like pelvis and prostate or chest mediastinum. The robot spins on 7 axes...I know x y  z. How do you get another 4


[23/10, 19:52]hu4: 

3 rotational, and 3 translational sir. 

The remaining one I am not aware of. 

My comments are specific to ortho. 


Though my colleagues in Urosurgery might be more positive, especially those doing, as you mentioned, Prostrate, abdo onco, nephron sparing surgeries etc.


[23/10, 19:56]hu4: On a techno-philosophical note, the idea of “robotics” takes on distinctly different meanings across surgical domains. 

In abdominal surgery, it functions primarily as a motion reproducer, a precise mechanical extension of the surgeon’s intent, filtering out tremor and minimizing other glitchy actions etc. 

In contrast, in orthopedic surgery, robotics serves more as a boundary setter and plane definer, a system that establishes the geometric framework and navigational pathways within which the surgeon operates.


[23/10, 20:21]hu5: Surgical robots have varying *degrees of freedom (DOF)*, with common systems having 6 or 7 DOF to replicate human wrist and hand movements. A 6-DOF system provides motion in six directions—three for translation (up/down, left/right, forward/backward) and three for rotation (roll, pitch, yaw). 

Adding a seventh DOF is typically achieved through a robotic instrument's articulated "wrist" that can mimic the surgeon's hand movements, allowing for more precise and flexible manipulation within the body. 

*6-DOF*: This is the most common configuration, representing the six independent movements of the human hand and wrist:

*Three translational movements (moving forward/backward, up/down, and left/right)* 

*Three rotational movements (pitch, roll, and yaw)* 

*7-DOF:* This is achieved by adding a seventh "degree of freedom" with an articulated instrument tip, such as a robotic "wrist" that can bend and twist. This allows the robot's tool to perform the *same complex actions as a human hand and wrist, such as grasping and cutting.*

[23/10, 20:23]hu5: *Surgical robots are best suited for complex and minimally invasive procedures, particularly in urology, gynecology, and general surgery*. Common applications include prostatectomies, hysterectomies, gallbladder removals, and various colorectal and thoracic surgeries. The precision and dexterity offered by robotic systems are ideal for delicate operations involving narrow spaces, sensitive organs, and complex anatomical structures.


[23/10, 20:25]hu4: Wow, fascinating, sir!!
Thank you for the detail.


[23/10, 20:29]hu4: Also, just as a theoretical aside, are the degrees of freedom then multiplicative or additive for joints placed serially?

e.g. a robotic joint with 6 deg of freedom coupled to another serial joint with another 6 degrees of freedom would offer 12 or 36 degrees of freedom?

(though, from an engineering standpoint, I'm assuming, it would be super-overkill).


[23/10, 20:48]hu5: No, the movements will remain in the same planes/axes - total will always be 6 or 7 as per the design(s).


[23/10, 20:52]hu5: To give another example, Magnetoencephalography (MEG): *6-axis MEG sensors* The "6-axis" term for a magnetometer in an MEG system refers to its ability to measure magnetic fields and field gradients, specifically *three axes of magnetic field measurement (\(B_{x},B_{y},B_{z}\)) and three axes of magnetic field gradient measurement (\(dB_{x}/dx,dB_{y}/dy,dB_{z}/dz\))*.

These gradiometers are more sensitive to nearby magnetic sources, improving spatial localization. 

[23/10, 20:58]hu4: beautiful! ❤️
So, when we differentiate this field vector matrix, we would get the Hessian?


[23/10, 21:00]hu4: Never realized there was such a degree of nuance to this seemingly simple concept. 

I'll make sure the next time you are teaching this, I'll grab a seat and listen 🫡


[23/10, 21:07]hu4: And the field grad. would then help us calculate the originator source?!

without needing to directly measure it?
To give a very fragile analogy then, sort of like a magnetic echolocation?


[23/10, 21:07]hu7: I am fascinated with magnets.  But when I play with them for sometime, it kinda makes me fuzzy in the mind.


[23/10, 21:10]hu4: My 'fuzzy' is current electricity. 

I have simply never understood how we arrive at an equivalent config in a star <--> delta config.



Here's a comprehensive summary and thematic analysis of the conversation titled:

---

*🧠 Summary: "UDLCO CRH: Degrees of Freedom in Cognitive Embodiments Engaged in User-Driven Robotic Surgery"*

*🔑 Key Concepts & Terms*

- *Robotic Surgery*: THA, THR, pedicle screw insertion, prostatectomy, skull base fixation
- *Degrees of Freedom (DOF)*: 6-DOF and 7-DOF systems, translational and rotational axes
- *Cognitive Embodiment*: Surgeon-machine interaction, adaptability, motion reproduction
- *Clinical Decision Support (CDS)*: CIMS/MIMS, SNOMED CT, ICD-10 mapping
- *Technological Maturity*: Capex concerns, ROI, surgical domain specificity
- *Neurotechnology*: Magnetoencephalography (MEG), magnetic field gradients, Hessian matrix
- *Philosophical Reflections*: Human-machine boundaries, surgical ethics, techno-skepticism

---

*🎯 Thematic Analysis*

*1. Human vs Machine Capabilities*

The dialogue explores whether robotic systems truly enhance surgical outcomes or merely replicate what skilled surgeons already achieve. While some argue robotics offer marginal gains (e.g., reduced blood loss, faster recovery), others question their necessity in routine procedures.

> *Theme*: _Augmentation vs redundancy_

*2. Degrees of Freedom as a Cognitive Extension*

The discussion on DOF highlights how robotic systems mimic human wrist and hand movements, enabling complex manipulations in constrained anatomical spaces. This is framed as a form of embodied cognition—where the robot becomes an extension of the surgeon’s intent.

> *Theme*: _Embodied cognition in surgical robotics_

*3. Domain-Specific Utility*

Robotics are perceived differently across specialties. In orthopedics, they serve as geometric boundary setters; in abdominal surgery, they act as motion reproducers. This duality reflects how technology adapts to the cognitive and physical demands of each field.

> *Theme*: _Contextual embodiment of technology_

*4. Evidence and Skepticism*


The lack of meta-analytic evidence and high capital expenditure (Capex) fuels skepticism. Participants call for more robust data to justify the investment, especially in routine procedures.

> *Theme*: _Evidence-based adoption vs techno-optimism_

*5. Neuropsychiatric Parallels*


The conversation veers into neurotech, drawing analogies between MEG sensors and robotic DOF. Concepts like magnetic field gradients and Hessian matrices evoke parallels with cognitive mapping and source localization—suggesting a convergence of surgical robotics and neuroimaging.

> *Theme*: _Neurocognitive modeling in surgical systems_

*6. Philosophical Reflections*

Underlying the technical discourse is a philosophical inquiry into the role of machines: Should they mimic human actions or transcend them? Is precision enough, or must adaptability be preserved?

> *Theme*: _Techno-philosophy of surgical embodiment_

---
Copilot summary above.

Perplexity summary below:

### Summary


This conversation transcript captures a multi-threaded discussion among healthcare professionals on clinical decision support tools and robotic surgery advancements. It begins with a promotional pitch for CIMS/MIMS drug interaction software used in Asian hospitals, including queries on SNOMED CT mapping and pricing, then shifts to debating the value of robotic systems in orthopedics, urology, and beyond, exploring their precision, ROI, and limitations.

**Key Words:** Robotic surgery, degrees of freedom (DOF), SNOMED CT, ICD-10, drug interaction checker, orthopedics (THA, THR, pedicle screws), CapEx, ROI, precision, adaptability, urology (prostatectomy), MEG sensors, human limitations, technological maturity.

### Thematic Analysis


The dialogue blends practical healthcare tech adoption with philosophical inquiry into human-machine augmentation.

 **Technology in Medicine** dominates, contrasting software tools like CIMS for diagnostics with robotics' role in overcoming surgical constraints (e.g., 7-DOF for wrist-like maneuvers in tight spaces), while questioning over-reliance in routine cases like orthopedics versus benefits in complex urology or spine procedures. 


**Skepticism vs. Optimism** emerges through debates on gimmickry, cost-effectiveness, and evidence gaps (e.g., lack of meta-analyses), highlighting tensions between innovation's promise and real-world ROI. 


**Educational Exchange** runs throughout, with technical explanations (e.g., translational/rotational DOF, field gradients in MEG) fostering curiosity, underscoring themes of adaptability, human expertise, and ethical tech integration in surgery. Overall, it reflects a forward-looking yet cautious view on AI/robotics enhancing, not replacing, skilled practitioners.

UDLCO CRH: Amazon AI driven decision making and healthcare clinical decision making road ahead

Summary with Keywords


The conversation discusses the differences between AI-driven decision-making in e-commerce and clinical decision-making in healthcare. Key words include:

- *AI in Healthcare*
- *Clinical Decision-Making*
- *Personalized Medicine*
- *Human Agency*
- *Economic Maximization*





Conversational transcripts:

[24/10, 09:53]hu2: Is this analogous to clinical decision making:

Key takeaways:


Help Me Decide uses AI to analyze your browsing history (patient's clinical history) and preferences (check out the word preferences in Sackett's classic definition of EBM) to recommend the right product (diagnostic and therapeutic, lab or imaging as well as pharmacological or non pharmacological therapy) for you with just one tap.



The tool helps customers pick the right product, quickly. 

(System 2 decision making fast tracked to system 1 and closer to tech singularity)?


Personalized recommendations include clear explanations of why a product is right for you based on your specific needs and preferences.

Personalized precision medicine with explainability to gain trust!


[24/10, 10:28]hu1: The trunk of the protocol is similar in essence, however it's roots and the expected fruits are extreme contrasts.

Both medical decision making and AI mediated "product 🫷 pushing" analyse patterns. That is the common trunk of the protocol.

However, the roots of the medical decision making transaction lie not in economic maximization but rather in humanistic optimization. 

A problem is brought to the clinician where the patient has a need to be cured. 

Cure by definition implies optimization of some aspect of the patient's agency that enables their life experience. In effect, therefore, the fruit of medical decision making is an enhanced human agency of the patient.

AI based product pushing on the other hand is rooted in economic maximization for the seller, or the platform, and essentially decimates the already weakened agency of choice by not only "suggesting" but "helping decide" the decision to buy, or more aptly enforcing a product "one feels one must buy". 

The fruit therefore is a near total erosion of the human agency.

....

Those reading this can decide for themselves on what happens when clinicians become "product pushers"


Thematic Analysis

The discussion highlights the fundamental differences between AI-driven product recommendations and clinical decision-making. Key themes include:

Contrasting Goals

- AI-driven product recommendations are rooted in economic maximization, aiming to sell products or services.

- Clinical decision-making, on the other hand, is focused on humanistic optimization, prioritizing the patient's well-being and agency.

Impact on Human Agency

- AI-driven product recommendations can erode human agency by limiting choices and influencing decisions.

- Clinical decision-making, in contrast, aims to enhance human agency by empowering patients to make informed decisions about their care.

Differences in Decision-Making Processes

- While both AI-driven product recommendations and clinical decision-making involve pattern analysis, the context and goals of these processes are distinct.

- Clinical decision-making involves a deeper understanding of the patient's needs and circumstances, whereas AI-driven product recommendations are often based on browsing history and preferences.

Overall, the conversation highlights the need for careful consideration of the differences between AI-driven decision-making in e-commerce and clinical decision-making in healthcare, and the importance of prioritizing human agency and well-being in healthcare decision-making.

Further conversational learning around the guardrails for ongoing evolutionary attempts to merge system 2 slow descriptive model based thinking trying to know with fast system 1 thinking that just knows:

[27/10, 07:10] hu1: The next patient who walks into a hospital in India might not just meet a doctor. They might also meet an algorithm.

Artificial Intelligence is quietly entering every corner of Indian healthcare from radiology reports to risk prediction, from hospital billing to patient triage. AI is assisting doctors in diagnosis, predicting disease outbreaks, and personalizing treatment plans.

But as the technology evolves, so does the question: 
Can AI heal without hearing? 
Can it care without crossing the line between precision and privacy?

As India awaits the enforcement of the Digital Personal Data Protection (DPDP) Act, healthcare stands at the crossroads of two revolutions one scientific, the other ethical. Both promise progress. Both demand responsibility.

Read full article: https://lnkd.in/dKKaNBiF


[27/10, 07:25]hu3: Responsibility is key


[27/10, 08:00]hu3: I believe nobody is wrong. It is a perception


[27/10, 08:25]hu4: 

Forget it sir. Health for all was to be achieved in 2020..
Immunization is not complete even in 2025
..
..
Doctors are dyeing due to violence from
People
Police 
Politicians
and judiciary is *watching* the on the spur of moment attacks on doctors.

See what happens in our courts for a day using online mechanism and you will realize how country is going south day by day and also get answer to question 

Hamara desh mahan kyu nahin hain..??

[27/10, 08:48]hu2: Excellent write up on LinkedIn that you linked above 👏👏

One of my questions to begin with on reading this is around quote, "Explainable AI (XAI) is the new necessity — patients and doctors deserve to know how and why a decision was made. A “black box” approach might satisfy speed, but it fails trust."

Interestingly XAI largely currently dwells on the machine explainability layer perhaps as to why the synapses adjusted their weights in the way they did and what was the role of it's prior priming but then I guess there are two more layers to explainability, the individual human layer (fully well accommodated in the care component of the author's CARE AI acronym)  and the scientific layer which is currently tackled using EBM empirical evidence analysed by both humans and AI in the loop.

So concerns around communicating, being accountable , respectful and empathic to the individual giving consent also means expecting a reciprocal duty on part of that consenting individual to realise that in healthcare ecosystems, privacy leakage is a trade-off and risk they have to optimise judiciously in collaboration with the caregiving team who will try to ensure scientific usage of their data for the greater good by making it open access after deidentification as in an age old case reports model.

[27/10, 08:49]hu5: The *Alma-Ata Declaration, adopted in 1978*, declared that health is a fundamental human right and called for primary healthcare to be the key to achieving the goal of *"Health for All"* (by 2000).

[27/10, 08:49]hu5: Only the target dates are revised and postponed.


[27/10, 08:54]hu2: Dating is easier than mating! Ouch!